Monday, June 4, 2007

MORE

God's omnipotence doesn't negate God's Being, God's Nature as God. God can not lie, for instance, because God is all Truth. God is not helplessly bound to moral standards or principles, God IS that which is Truth, hence Moral. It is God's Nature, God's Being that is the standard, not some separate system.I don't, as you alledge, suppose that "free will is contradictory to a world in which every person loves God (and knows God exists)." There is no contradiction; in fact such a world was/is God's Will. What I argue is that in creating such free beings, God must allow for sin and rebellion OR the beings would not be free to love, they would be automatons. At some juncture, when all things have been accomplished, there will be such a world where all will know God, as they are responsible to know God now since God's existence is evident, and in that Day, all mankind who have inherited the promises will indeed love God unfailingly.
"One: There is at least one aspect of each cognitive being's thoughts/feelings over which they have no choice, and no free will: That these thoughts/feelings begin to exist at all."
These first movements of thought, I agree, are not at this time under man's control. This is one of the effects of the Fall.
"Two: Before we even begin to exist, this god would be capable of knowing in advance which of us will freely choose to 'love him' and which of us will not."
Humanly speaking, I agree. So far I agree with you.
"Three: This god would be capable of allowing that only cognitive beings who would freely choose to love him anyway begin to exist, thus preventing the eternal suffering of billions upon billions of souls. (This god would have been capable of not creating Lucifer or any other angel which would fall, all without preventing the angels he did create from loving him freely.)"
Here we part company. Such a view of reality is illusory. What is loving God freely, but freely choosing to do His Will (by His grace, of course)? Such a world God 'desired.' But there can be no choice pro God that is not in a matrix which allows one to not choose God. Intelligent beings choose to love God, if in fact they do choose to love God, they choose freely. Take humans. If God did not create Adam and Eve because God knew they would rebell, we would not be here. So God creates Joe and Edith, whom God knows will not rebell but love Him. They have kids.....but only kids that will love God. See any difficulties developing?
"It HAS to be that evil comes, but woe by whom it comes." ...Jesus
A man in a real world makes choices over against options, choosing to love or not to love in every instance of choice. n this endurance one sees the maturation of character and finally of a love that never dies.
"Four: In choosing to love or not-love another entity, one must first be aware of that entity's existence. Many human beings would choose to love this god IF they were aware he existed, but cannot make this choice because they are unaware that there is a god to make this choice ABOUT. In his omniscience, this god would be well aware of this fact."
In fact the existence of God is plain for all to see.
Romans 1:[19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; [21] for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. [22] Claiming to be wise, they became fools
Obviously you object to Paul's assertions. This will take effort to illustrate, another time, if youb will. But, it is fair for me to counter assert what you assert also without evidence, or as you insist, calling your assertions "self-evident truths."
sidebar: Thomas Jefferson (not a Christian, perhaps a deist) wrote in the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
So, all in all I am not, you will agree, in bad company :-).
Bear in mind, also, that we hold that all mankind can be saved, even those who may not explicitely accept the Gospel because they have not heard it.
"Five: Certainty of this god's existence is not a breach of free will, since it does not preclude a cognitive being from choosing not to love this god anyway"
See my answer to #4. Of course, I quite agree that such certainty does not breach man's freedom. That certainty, which, absence the very Vision of God, is nonetheless clear and evident, is precisely the reason why those who rebell have no excuse.
"Six: This god would be capable of making all cognitive beings certain of his existence. Doing so would save billions upon billions of souls without inhibiting the exercise of free will."
Love doesn't ever coerce. Love invites. "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you."
This is a matter of love and freedom not coercion and tyranny.God invites, God doesn't impose. That is not to say that God does not deal severely with those who rebell, but
Christ says: Rev.3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
So, there you have my effort of this early morning. :-)

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